wattie

vivre ou survivre?

Vendredi 22 mai 2009 à 13:51

A l'heure où les politiques suivent les consignes des maisons de disques et leurs artistes salariés, des artistes  libres et indépendants de talents, boycottés par les marchés de masse, mettent en ligne gratuitement leurs oeuvres. C'est le cas ici du groupe TAT.
La loi contre le téléchargement n'est pas là pour protéger les artistes mais seulement les marges des maisons de disques. Ces majors qui s'engraissent sur le dos de leurs musiciens et chanteurs.
L
'art ne doit pas vivre d'argent mais de passion voir de conviction, ce n'est pas un métier, enfin c'est mon opinion qui je le sais, surtout à l'heure des stars ac et autre nouvelles stars, énerve ceux qui voudraient vivre de leur art. Pour moi la professionalisation de l'art (et pas seulement de la musique) ne peux que le pervertir. sinon plus que d'artiste il faudrait parler d'artisans.

  

Par tatmusique le Lundi 25 mai 2009 à 21:22
bonjour à toi wattie
TAT donne peut être sa musique mais elle n'a pas été faite gratuitement.
Je crois que ton jugement sur les artistes et sur l'art en général et l'industrie est romantique mais il est loin d'être approprié.
Ton raisonnement tient la route si tu veux jouer dans ta chambre,autrement c'est une toute autre réalité.

Amicalement
Par wattie le Mardi 26 mai 2009 à 15:59
A l'heure d'aujourd'hui il est aisé et pas forcément couteux de se créer son propre home studio certains logiciels sont même gratuits et les qualité ont largement dépassées celles des vieux 4 pistes. Et les enregistrements sont à présent dématérialisés, plus besoin d'acheter des K7 ou CD ni ou de graver des vinyls on met en ligne sans frais et la planète entière peux nous découvrir.

Bien sûre que jouer de la musique et s'enregistrer n'est pas gratuit (il faut déjà s'acheter l'instrument louer des locaux pour répéter si l'on n'en possède pas...) mais toute passion a un coût, un modéliste par exemple investi bien du temps et de l'argent à confectionner ses maquettes qui finissent sur ses étagères ou qu'il peut exposer en ligne où en salle lors de conventions.

Reste les concerts où là naturellement l'argent entre en compte et d'ailleurs pas mal d'artistes admettent qu'ils ont plus de possibilité de gagner de l'argent en se produisant devant un public qu'en vendant des disques. Et pour cela, le téléchargement gratuit ne peut que les aider à mieux se faire connaître pour obtenir un public pouvoir remplir des salles.

Ma vision romantique (merci pour cette critique) ne condanme donc en rien le musicien ou chanteur à jouer ou chanter dans sa chambre.
Par tatmusique le Vendredi 29 mai 2009 à 20:20
Salut à toi

Ton précédent comm' est complètement hors sujet.

Dans ton article, tu dis que entre autres,la loi hadopi est là pour protéger les maisons de disques.C'est vrai mais aussi les artistes puisque l'argent dégagé par les ventes et autres, va aussi aux artistes.
Puis tu dis que les maisons de disques s'engraissent sur le dos des artistes signés chez eux.
Qu'en sais tu?
Les artistes n'ont pas tous les mêmes types de contrats et de pourcentages sur les ventes,tickets de concerts,etc....
Certains ont des contrats qui leur permet de vivre très bien et ne rechignent pas car leur maison d'édition fait beaucoup d'argent.
Peux tu accepter ce fait?

Pour finir,quand tu dis que les gens ne doivent pas vivre de leur art,c'est là que je te trouve très romantique.
Tu dois vivre sur une autre planète car même en remontant très loin dans le temps et dans n'importe quel domaine,les gens qui ont fait de l'art le vendait pour pouvoir vivre.
Vendre son art ne veut pas dire se compromettre.C'est là qu'il y a un souci dans ton point de vue.
Je suis sûr que dans ta discothèque,tu as plus d'un artiste qui ne fait que ça de sa vie et tu l'as encouragé en achetant son album.
Si un artiste ne doit pas vivre de son art,pourquoi as tu acheté son album ou son livre?

Amicalement
Par wattie le Lundi 1er juin 2009 à 16:06
l'art une profession ou non chacun sa vision pour moi cela ne doit pas en être une et comment accepter de ne pas pouvoir télécharger des alums dont les artistes sont morts ou qu'il y a déjà plusieurs années qu'il est déjà paru (ça devient une rente) je n'aime pas l'art qui se vend et s'achète bien qu'en en ayant bien sûre acheté quand il n'y a pas le choix de se le procurer autrement. Pire encore est mon jugement quand je vois de l'art qui sert de moyen de capitalisation.

Des artiste connus (comme halliday ou noir désir decomme des petits jamais sortis de l'hombre disent que des maison de disque se sont bien enrichis sur leur dos) l'art commerciale doit être rentable bien sûre tous les labels n'ont pas la même mentalité et des indépendant soutiennent encore des groupe s'en s'immicer dans leur façon de creer mais le système général est dans le profit malgré tout.
les principaux revendicateurs du téléchargement libre et gratuit demande par exemple que les droit d'auteur devraient avoir pour échéance 5ans par exemple de quoi permettre l'amortissement de l'enregistrement s'il le faut.
Par wattie le Lundi 1er juin 2009 à 16:11
Un parti pour le téléchargement libre et gratuit: le parti des pirates
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5ihynGaCzOMWmnVQbBt5az0yZdLqw
Par tatmusique le Mardi 9 juin 2009 à 20:31
Salut à toi

Sans doute que chacun a sa vision de l'art et de valeur marchande toutefois tu sembles bien vouloir avoir raison et convaincre les gens qui te lisent de ton point de vue dans ton article et ce,sans prendre en compte certains données essentielles à une réflexion plus juste de la chose.

Pour réagir à ton dernier commentaire,je constate que ton discours ne change pas.
Mozart est mort depuis des lustres or,ses descendants continuent de demander des droits aux orchestres et interprètes qui souhaitent utiliser ses oeuvres.Est ce choquant alors que pour être honnête avec toi,c'est vrai que ses descendants n'ont rien créer du tout pour pouvoir justifier d'un revenu?
Quelque part oui mais je pense que le cas des auteurs classiques est un peu à part.
pour le monde de la Pop c'est assez clair : si l'artiste meurt,l'argent va à sa famille.Il n'y a pas d'autres limites de temps que celui fixé sur les contrats et sur la notoriété des artistes.
Dans 50 ans,le catalogue des Beatles vaudra toujours autant d'argent.Celui d'un groupe suisse de hardcore qui a sorti un album en 2001,c'est moins sûr.....
Savais tu que lorsqu'un professeurs des écoles meurt,sa famille touche une pension pendant des années après sa mort alors que le travail n'est plus du tout effectué?
N'est ce pas scandaleux également?
C'est même pire puisque c'est toi et moi qui payons pour un service non rendu pendant des années et cet argent va à quelqu'un qui n'a jamais mis les pieds dans un conseil de classe.
La loi est telle qu'elle est.Si les contrats sont signés de telle manière que les gens continuent à toucher de l'argent sur leurs oeuvres,c'est le commun accord des 2 parties et dans le respect de la loi.
Peut être souhaiterais tu une société où le droit d'auteur n'existe pas? c'est sans doute possible mais à la fin de la journée,celui qui a chanté toute la journée ou la soirée,il faut bien qu'il croûte.
Si personne ne le rémunère pour ce qu'il fait que cela soit pour divertir les gens ou pour tout autre chose à but artistique,comment peut il continuer à le faire?
S'il n'y a plus de gens qui sont rémunérés ou même ne serait ce que défrayés,c'est la mort de la culture et oui,à ce moment là,le triomphe de la culture de masse TV ou autres qui profitent de la pauvreté artistique et intellectuelle des gens.

A un moment tu dis que tu as achété les oeuvres d'artistes car tu ne pouvais pas te les procurer autrement.
Eh bien,je ne te souhaite pas qu'un jour à ton travail,on vienne te dire qu'ils n'ont plus besoin de toi car un moyen a été trouvé pour faire ton travail et ne plus avoir à te payer.
Tu resterais zen?

Que certains artistes disent que les éditeurs ou maisons de disques se font de l'argent sur leur dos,libre à eux.
Ils n'avaient qu'à pas signer en bas de la feuille et continuer différemment.OU bien si c'est au cours du temps qu'ils se sentent lésés,eh bien qu'ils les attaquent en justice.
Ton entreprise ne se fait pas de l'argent sur ton dos peut être?
Eh bien si,sinon ils ne t'auraient pas embauché.
Où est la différence? c'est parce que l'on parle d'art là?

Ta vision de l'art par rapport à la société actuelle est complètement hors phase.
Tu devrais être plus en contact avec ceux qui la vivent au jour le jour pour pouvoir une vision plus juste de l'art dans nos sociétés modernes.

Une question : le livre sur Indochine dont tu parles quelques articles plus bas,tu l'as acheté?
Par wattie le Jeudi 11 juin 2009 à 21:59
le livre d'indo m'a été offert mais oui j'achète des livres qui pour moi est une culture informative comme les magazines, ils participent à l'évolution de nos sociétés en nous aidant à la réflexion; Même s'il n'est qu'un reflet d'une petite cellule de notre monde ça nous permet de se faire une vision d'où nous vivons entourés de qui de quoi...
C'est chiant tout mon commentaire s'est effacé par une fausse manipe et je n'arrive plus à retrouver l'ensemble de ce que je t'avais écris mais bon j'essaie.

je disais aussi que je ne partageais pas la comparaison du téléchargement illégale avec le vol du paim d'un boulanger car le téléchargement est immatériel. Bien sûre l'artiste n'obtient rien de financier en retour de ce type de téléchargement mais comme tu le vois mon avis sur la question de la professionalisation de l'art ne change pas chez moi. Et jamais je ne pourrais me satisfaire que des tableaux ou sculptures se vendent des millions sous couvert d'art ou de culture et développer tout un bisnness plus ou moins douteux ou de l'argent sâle peut s'y laver et dont le marché est un pure reflt du capitalisme spéculateur.

tracailler sans salaire pourquoi pas c'est un peu l'utopie de la révolution cubaine; mais pour celà il faudrait plus que rééduquer l'humain qui ne fait des effort et travaille pour s'enrichir et obtenir du pouvoir plus que pour participer au vivre ensemble. L'argent est la carotte qui nous fait avancer mais qui nous déshumanise.
si l'on a plus besoin de moi bien sûre que l'on me vire c'est ce qui se fait tout comme l'homme est progressivement remplacé par la robotisation qui se perfectionne et atteindra de toute évidence (sauf problème d'énergie ou de matière) un intelligeance artificielle de plus en plus proche de la nôtre; les japonais sont très en avance là dessus. c'est pourquoi le travail rémunéré n'est pas une fin en soi. Le problème n'est pas le fait que l'on n'ai plus besoin de nous dans le monde du travail rémunéré mais ce que l'on fait de nous quand on ne travail pas, je veux dire qu'il ne faut pas refuser, comme un majorité de politique, le partage du temps de travail en nous faisant croire que celui ci est irréductible et non partageable. Il faut plutôt repenser notre société et la place de l'argent dans celle-ci. Mais il faudrait arrêter de nous éduquer dès notre plus jeune âge à dépasser l'autre en jouant solo pour être le meilleur mais nous apprnedre à réussir en équipe, forger l'esprit collectif plutôt qu'entrepreneur conquérant. Mais là tu vas encore me dire que je vis sur une autre planète,... malheureusement non.
Par wattie le Jeudi 11 juin 2009 à 22:06
Ah oui je disais aussi que oui je connaissais des musiciens dans ma propre famille d'ailleurs dont un qui joue en temps que musicien de studio en plus d'autres activités lié au monde musical (sonorisation, cours...). Certains, comme beaucoup aimeraient également en vivre mais ça ne change rien à mon opinion. ce n'est pas lutter contre le téléchargement qui participera à la tansformation de nos sociétés pour un monde plus juste et plus libre.
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